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this is james randy and you're listening

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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for the 5th of february show number 68

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richard saunders here with you once

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again

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on today's show we have an interview by

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kylie sturgess with professor chris

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french from the uk

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what an interesting man he is

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investigating the paranormal the

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supernatural the unexplained

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that's followed by some highlights from

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the mystery investigator show the show

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for schools where dr rachie and i travel

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around and do a stage show teaching

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science i hope you'll find that

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interesting after that we have a brief

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report about the 1023 campaign by kylie

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sturgis

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and of course that's followed by dr

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rachie reports

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now before we get into the show there's

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a few things i guess i need to cover as

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mentioned uh last week on the think tank

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the happy g had house of pancake site

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was kind enough to nominate one day last

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week as international doctor raichy day

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that blog is worth checking out

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congratulations to rebecca watson from

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the skeptic's guide to the universe for

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appearing on robert llewellyn's carpool

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interview show

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it's a really great show certainly worth

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fascinating guests including ben

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goldacre

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and sir patrick stewart

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another thing worth checking out online

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is the new videos by captain disillusion

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and you can check him out at youtube.com

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slash user slash captain disillusion

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great videos great fun

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many thanks to listener paul mcgowan who

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sent us the

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cosmos dvd set um which we're probably

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going to auction a bit later might get

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somebody very famous to sign that and

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we'll see how we go

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and thank you too to those wonderful

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people who sent in

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large donations to the skeptic zone in

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the last week

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much appreciated and certainly helps us

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keep the show on air or online or

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whatever you want to say

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and finally

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if you haven't voted already you can

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still vote in the next few hours i think

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anyway

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for dr rachie in the shorty awards

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she's bleeding as i record this

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com shortyawards.com

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category

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slash health

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a vote for dr he is a vote for science

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and reason

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okay enough about that let's get on to

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i'm carly sturgis and i'm talking to

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professor christopher french professor

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christopher french is a psychologist and

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vocal skeptic specialising in the

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psychology of paranormal beliefs and

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experiences cognition and emotion

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he is currently the professor of

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psychology at goldsmiths college

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university of london and is head of

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their anomalistic psychology research

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unit which he founded in the year 2000

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he is also the co-editor of the skeptic

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hey thank you very much for joining us

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tell us about anomalistic psychology and

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how does it differ from parapsychology

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well basically what normalistic

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psychology focuses on is

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starting from the working

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hypothesis that paranormal forces don't

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exist

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are there other ways that we could

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explain ostensibly paranormal

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experiences now i mean it's important to

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point out that we're not saying that we

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know paranormal forces don't exist we're

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just saying that given that the wider

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scientific community

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isn't convinced by the evidence that's

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been put forward by parapsychologists

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then is it possible that we can explain

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the weird experiences that people have

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when they think they're experiencing

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telepathy or they've seen a ghost or

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they've seen a ufo or whatever else it

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may be

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can we explain those things

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in other terms and typically you know

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we're talking about in psychological

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terms

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we're actually starting as i say from

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the working assumption that paranormal

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forces don't exist now most

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parapsychologists put most of their

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effort into trying to

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prove that paranormal forces do exist

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um again what you find in practice is

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that

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at the anomalistic psychology research

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unit we do spend some of our time doing

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parapsychology we do test psychics we

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always get negative results we do test

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psychic claims

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and again we've never produced any

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positive results but we do think it's

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important to be open-minded in

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approaching these things

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and some parapsychologists are very

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interested in the kind of cognitive

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illusions where people believe that

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something paranormal happened even when

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it hasn't so it's more a matter of

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emphasis than anything else but uh if i

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had to bet my house i would bet my house

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that paranormal forces don't exist and

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therefore as a psychologist i'm really

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interested in why so many people think

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they do so what led you to become

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interested in this particular aspect of

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psychology anyway this has been going on

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for quite some time the work that you're

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doing with the anomalistic psychology

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research unit hasn't it

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it has um i mean i first started at uh

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goldsmiths in 1985

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and at the time i did i i should say by

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the way i've not always been a skeptic i

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mean when i when i was a teenager and

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even when i was going through university

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as an undergraduate i actually tended to

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believe in most of this stuff and for

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the reasons i think that most people do

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they i mean i'd read the books i've seen

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the films i've had the occasional spooky

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experience myself and

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it just didn't seem they seemed to me

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more sensible to believe these things

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really did exist

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than they didn't it was only when i read

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one particular book it was jim all cox

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parapsychology science on magic when i

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was doing my phd that suddenly i kind of

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realized it was another way of looking

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at all these things and that was the

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early 80s as i said i started at

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goldsmiths in 85 and initially i just

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did a couple of lectures from a very

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skeptical point of view on

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parapsychology

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and the students obviously really

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enjoyed it whether they were believers

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or skeptics themselves people do find

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these kinds of topics really interesting

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and fun to talk about

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that i actually realized

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i was really very interested in this

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stuff and i could put on a whole whole

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course so i now do a final year option

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as part of our bsc psychology program on

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anomalistic psychology and increasingly

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the research that i was doing was in

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that area

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um and eventually

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it really became my kind of prime focus

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of interest and so it was kind of fairly

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fairly gradual thing what started off as

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a kind of side interest in a hobby

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i i just realized that i just found it

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fascinating and i still do so uh it's

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good

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i've noticed that the

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research unit is very proactive when it

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comes to lectures and outreach i get

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regular email updates all the time has

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it influenced numbers of students taking

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courses in the subject

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i think this is certainly been

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a tremendous

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increase in the kind of general

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skeptical movement in the uk over about

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the last two years

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um and it's hard to say exactly what's

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caused that i think you can speculate

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that a number of factors were important

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um

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and i think richard dawkins uh god

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delusion and christopher hitchens and

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people like that have made it much more

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acceptable for atheists to actually

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express

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their their atheism um i think the fact

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that groups like skeptics in the pub

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i mean steps in the po has been going

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now for for over 10 years uh but

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certainly over the last couple of years

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not only has the skeptics in the pub

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group in london been so successful that

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now they regularly every month drawing

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well over 200 people and they've had to

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introduce a booking system

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um but also there are branches of

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skeptics in the pub springing up all

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over the country there's well over a

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dozen in different cities up and down

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the uk now

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um so i mean there's definitely kind of

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something in the air over here now again

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i wouldn't like to claim that um

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anomalistic psychology is the only

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reason people get into into skepticism

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uh but i think it's played a part um and

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one of the one things i'm most excited

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about is that as from this year

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on the psychology a level that's taken

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by kids in school from 16 to 18

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um one of the options one of the three

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options that they have is anomalistic

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psychology and that's just absolutely

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fantastic it's going to be thousands of

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kids every year who are going to be

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reading about anomalistic psychology and

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thinking wow that stuff's really

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interesting wanting to do at university

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and so i think it'll have ripple effects

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that more and more universities will

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actually start to put on courses like

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this but at the moment there's a there's

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a handful of them down the country but

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every year you hear about another two or

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three places that are putting on a

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course like this because i say the

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students find it really interesting it

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tells you

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it teaches you some very interesting

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things about human psychology and it's

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also just a great way of teaching

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critical thinking that applies beyond

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the realms of just the paranormal but to

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all kinds of other areas

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whether you're assessing alternative

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medicines or or any other kind of

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controversial claim that's out there

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then you need those critical thinking

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skills

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i remember that the news of the course

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was reported in your column in the

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guardian that has been a a recent

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opportunity hasn't it well yeah i mean

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i've got a column i only do a column for

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the online

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science page but uh it still reaches a

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kind of quite a wide audience and again

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it's just a great way of being able to

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get the message out there i mean it was

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quite interesting when i actually wrote

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the uh the piece on the introduction of

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anomalistic

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psychology into schools uh i thought it

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was a very innocent unprovocative little

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piece but clearly lots of people found

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it

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that i got on that from people who

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clearly had not actually bothered to

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read past the first couple of sentences

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and the nice picture of yuri geller

282
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holding a bent spoon um and they were

283
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:05,600
they were up in arms about it um

284
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:08,000
which is kind of interesting that

285
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,519
this kind of topic

286
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:11,519
whether you're talking to people who do

287
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:12,560
believe in it or people who don't

288
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:15,519
believe in it it arouses such emotion in

289
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:16,480
people

290
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and

291
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as i say it was actually i was quite

292
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,399
taken aback by that some of the comments

293
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that were there presumably from people

294
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who

295
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actually saw themselves as being very

296
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:29,440
scientific and very skeptical but even

297
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:30,399
then

298
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:31,920
did not think that anything like this

299
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:34,079
should ever be taught in schools uh

300
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:35,760
which i think is personally i think is a

301
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:37,760
quite ridiculous position to take the

302
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:39,120
point is that

303
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:41,279
opinion poll after opinion poll shows

304
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,240
that the majority of the population

305
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,160
in one way or another

306
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:48,640
do express belief in the paranormal most

307
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:49,519
people

308
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:51,839
in any survey will endorse at least one

309
00:11:55,509 --> 00:11:53,360
paranormal claim

310
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:55,519
now either that means that paranormal

311
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:58,320
forces really do exist or it's telling

312
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,600
us something really interesting about

313
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,920
human psychology so either way

314
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:03,519
we should definitely take these kinds of

315
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:05,120
claims seriously and try to understand

316
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:06,720
what's going on do you think that

317
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:09,120
perhaps it points the way for people

318
00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:11,600
interested in the course to produce

319
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,800
resources i think definitely um i mean i

320
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:17,040
think there's already as you will know

321
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:18,639
um

322
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:21,760
quite a lot of good quality skeptical

323
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:24,399
literature out there it's just that for

324
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:27,440
a long time it's it's not been very

325
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:30,160
obvious where it was uh i mean i

326
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,760
i mean i mean i think yeah speak from

327
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:33,279
personal experience as i said to you

328
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,720
when i um first when i read my first

329
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,200
skeptical book and my eyes were opened

330
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:41,519
uh jim olcott's got a lot to answer for

331
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,639
um

332
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,959
then there are lots of references in the

333
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:46,800
back of his book to this publication

334
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:49,279
called the skeptical inquirer which i'd

335
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:52,240
never heard of before in my life um and

336
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:54,480
i started to subscribe to that and then

337
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,240
realized that there were

338
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:58,160
lots of uh

339
00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:00,639
other publications there were books out

340
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:02,320
there there was this kind of this guy

341
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:03,839
who again i'd never really heard of at

342
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,480
the time called james randy and he had

343
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:08,240
written some books on yuri geller in a

344
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,399
book called flynn and suddenly you kind

345
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:11,839
of got your hands on this stuff and it

346
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:15,360
was just such a joy to read you know um

347
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,480
but

348
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:17,760
i mean i think it's

349
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:19,279
these days i think kind of skeptical

350
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,680
literature is a bit more out there but

351
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:23,519
still if you walk into your average book

352
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:26,079
shop on the high street you will find

353
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,880
shelf after shelf after shelf of pro

354
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,320
paranormal

355
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,480
new age nonsense

356
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,120
and maybe a couple of little books

357
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:37,279
tucked away here and there that actually

358
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:38,880
take a critical approach they're more

359
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,079
skeptical but the tide is very very

360
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,800
slowly turning i'd say i mean again

361
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:46,399
mentioning richard dawkins i think the

362
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:47,680
fact that

363
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,000
his book was a bestseller and that other

364
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,839
people have been able to to

365
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:53,680
to follow up on that ben gold acres bad

366
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:57,120
science and and various others um you

367
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:58,560
know there is there are signs that

368
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,959
things are slowly beginning to change

369
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,120
we touched briefly upon skeptical

370
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,279
activism and i've recently had the

371
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:07,279
opportunity to talk to the merseyside

372
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,959
skeptics and their 1023 campaign has

373
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:13,040
there been much of a relationship of

374
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:15,839
skepticism to consumer affairs in the uk

375
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,959
i think that again i think that's

376
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,399
something that's that's beginning to

377
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,279
happen more um i mean there's the 1023

378
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,680
campaign which which is fantastic

379
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:24,880
um

380
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:27,360
and and there was also you'll know that

381
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:30,320
simon singh is being sued by the british

382
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:32,480
chiropractic association

383
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:36,079
um and this actually led to a couple of

384
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:37,920
people in the uk

385
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,600
um

386
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,519
basically i mean simon perry for example

387
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:43,360
who runs the leicester branch of

388
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:46,720
skeptics in the pub um decided that it

389
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:48,560
would be a good idea

390
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:49,839
to

391
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,199
write a little bit of software that

392
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:53,760
would look on all the

393
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,480
websites for the members of the british

394
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:58,560
chiropractic association

395
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,360
and if they mentioned the word colic and

396
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:03,839
claimed that to be treating colic then

397
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:04,800
he

398
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,720
a letter campaign which was very i mean

399
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,959
i i helped out with this i sent some i

400
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:15,519
sent a bachelor letters myself

401
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,800
and uh

402
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,279
it was very easy to send out

403
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:21,199
well over 80 letters

404
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:22,720
and just basically saying these people

405
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:24,639
are making claims that they can't

406
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,959
substantiate actually using the kind of

407
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,480
trade descriptions

408
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,480
legislation to

409
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,880
uh to attack these people and basically

410
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:34,160
it's been a very very successful

411
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,839
campaign lots of them have had to stop

412
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,440
making those claims on their websites

413
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:40,079
and into literature and and now they

414
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,959
know

415
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:42,720
that people

416
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,959
are kind of watching them and taking

417
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:46,399
note of what they're saying and

418
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:48,560
challenging them and and i think there's

419
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:51,120
got to be got to be a good thing

420
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,639
um

421
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:53,759
there is a

422
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,839
the british chiropractic association in

423
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:57,360
taking the action they took against

424
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,519
simon saying i think they've really shot

425
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:01,199
themselves in the foot because so many

426
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:02,079
people

427
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,519
in this country and again i don't know

428
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,600
what it's like in australia but in this

429
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:06,959
country lots of people thought that

430
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,399
chiropractic was actually a legitimate

431
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,560
part of conventional medicine they

432
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:15,279
didn't realize that it was actually had

433
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,040
a large amount of woo in there um

434
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:21,199
and so by actually bringing this to the

435
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,880
floor and

436
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,959
people are now talking about the kind of

437
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:26,480
that the claims and the underlying

438
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:29,279
theories and they realize that actually

439
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:30,720
there's no evidence to support a lot of

440
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,320
these claims and so they've really got a

441
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,079
lot of very bad publicity from their

442
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:36,560
point of view and i'm very pleased about

443
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:38,320
that it serves them right

444
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:40,399
i think we have a very similar attitude

445
00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:42,320
over here in australia towards the

446
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:45,199
chiropractic profession uh we had simon

447
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,680
singh uh do a short tour where he went

448
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,680
to adelaide and sydney we were very

449
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,360
fortunate to have him present for the

450
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:53,360
australian skeptics i guess what we have

451
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:56,560
now is not only an overlap with consumer

452
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,440
affairs awareness but also science

453
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,519
communication has there been much

454
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:03,680
consultation with formal science

455
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,839
communication bodies in the uk well

456
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:07,360
again there are

457
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,959
i mean things have tended to kind of

458
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:11,039
grow if you like kind of fairly kind of

459
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:13,679
organically to this point things are

460
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,919
getting kind of much more organized

461
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,520
these days i mean thanks to the internet

462
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,280
it's much easier to kind of have

463
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,120
organized campaigns

464
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,439
and have networks and so on and so forth

465
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:25,679
and that's that's very much a feature of

466
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:28,720
skepticism in the uk at the moment um i

467
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:30,799
mean there are groups as you know sense

468
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:33,919
about science who are organizing uh

469
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:36,400
amongst other activities they are have

470
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:38,000
organized a campaign

471
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,160
in support of simon singh

472
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:42,559
um one of the things that's happened

473
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,440
there recently is that the

474
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:47,600
sense about science campaign against the

475
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,200
the libel laws and particularly the

476
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,960
where the libel laws are having an

477
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:52,080
effect on

478
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:54,960
science communication um but they've now

479
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:57,840
joined forces with uh two other groups

480
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,400
who are also campaigning against the

481
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:03,360
very very unfair english libel laws

482
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:05,840
that's english pen who represent

483
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:07,280
the literary world

484
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:09,600
and index on censorship so now there's a

485
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:13,039
very very strong coalition there with

486
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:16,799
all a huge array of very big names uh

487
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:20,720
jonathan ross stephen fry dara o'brien

488
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:22,400
uh all these people

489
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,039
coming together lots of mps party

490
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:27,120
support and there is a real chance that

491
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,440
they may actually have a have a lasting

492
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:32,000
effect on getting the english libel laws

493
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:33,600
reform now i mean that would be

494
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:37,280
fantastic achievement um and again from

495
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:38,960
the point of view of people in the world

496
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:41,679
of science it's the way that people like

497
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,039
simon singh

498
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:45,600
and peter wilmshurst who is he was also

499
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:48,400
a victim of these very unfair libel laws

500
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:50,160
the way they've been treated has drawn

501
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:51,760
people's attention to the fact that

502
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:55,760
there is this big problem in the uk

503
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,960
in so far as scientists are sometimes

504
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:01,600
quite cautious about what they'll

505
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:02,880
actually put into writing and what

506
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,799
they'll say in lectures

507
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:06,480
um and that's not the way science is

508
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:08,799
supposed to work and so

509
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:11,200
i think i mean the campaign in itself is

510
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,039
obviously just a very very just campaign

511
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,200
with implications beyond beyond just the

512
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:16,640
world of science

513
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,360
but um i think it also has been very

514
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,039
useful in so far as it actually

515
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:23,280
highlights the way science works that

516
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,039
science is all about

517
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,200
putting ideas up there having them

518
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:29,520
criticized testing them against the

519
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:31,600
evidence and trying to refine your

520
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,919
theories and and produce better ideas

521
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:35,600
and letting the evidence speak rather

522
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:38,880
than any kind of appeals to authority or

523
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,120
to divine truth or whatever else it may

524
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,520
be i think the support for skepticism

525
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,120
that's being shown in the uk

526
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,440
particularly the intersection of pop

527
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:49,679
culture particularly comedy i've noticed

528
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:51,919
the comedians getting behind politics

529
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:54,400
and science that's it's it's

530
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:55,840
yeah i'm sorry i brought you there

531
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,760
that's that's actually been amazing but

532
00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:00,240
um you know we've got uh we've got your

533
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,320
tim minchin who is

534
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:04,320
a complete genius

535
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:05,280
um

536
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:06,799
and i mean and that is just such an

537
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,039
effective way of getting skepticism

538
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,120
across as well and we've also yeah we've

539
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:13,280
got dara obrie and i mean stephen fry

540
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:15,039
for a long time people have known that

541
00:20:20,150 --> 00:20:18,080
he's a a card carrying skeptic

542
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,160
robin insta is doing a fantastic job in

543
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:22,320
terms of organizing these events i'm

544
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:24,320
sure you've heard about the um

545
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:25,679
nine lessons

546
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:28,320
and carols for godless people

547
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,400
shows that he organizes around christmas

548
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:32,080
here it would be lovely if it came

549
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:34,159
touring to australia or if maybe we had

550
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:35,840
someone inspired to do something similar

551
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:38,000
here so yeah it's absolutely great and

552
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:39,360
he got along to these things and one of

553
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,080
the nice things about it is the sense of

554
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:44,080
community because for a long time i

555
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:45,840
think that was something that

556
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,240
religious people had but skeptics and

557
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,320
atheists and humanists maybe didn't so

558
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:52,480
much and it's nice to go along to these

559
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:54,159
events and think you know these are your

560
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,000
kind of people these are people who i

561
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,400
mean by no means obviously as you will

562
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:01,200
i'm sure you will know uh you don't find

563
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,720
that skeptics all sing from the same

564
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,240
song sheet they they're all they're

565
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:08,320
opinionated bunch but they they love a

566
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,159
good argument but it's all about the

567
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:12,720
kind it's all done in the sense of just

568
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,760
enjoying that debate and

569
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:17,520
recognizing that kind of trying to take

570
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,039
a rational approach to things is the

571
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:21,200
best way forward

572
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:22,480
and it's nice in those kind of

573
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,520
situations particularly a comedy show to

574
00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:27,840
actually you know to enjoy yourself and

575
00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:30,320
to actually feel that you are part of a

576
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,320
larger community and i said there's a

577
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,799
big big sense over here that things are

578
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:35,840
happening

579
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:38,159
the the people have got behind the

580
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,480
simon singh campaign um there are

581
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,240
various other campaigns that are taking

582
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,960
off some of which you mentioned and

583
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:46,960
just generally there is there is a real

584
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:48,880
buzz about skepticism in the uk at the

585
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:51,840
moment yeah i think this intersection is

586
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,080
reflected in the recent relaunch of the

587
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,720
uk skeptic magazine well again this is

588
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,080
another case in point i mean the

589
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:00,240
magazine's been going for for over 20

590
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,600
years and for a lot of that time it just

591
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:05,760
kind of chugged along and we had a a

592
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,440
hardcore of

593
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:10,000
loyal readers um

594
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,400
but there was this kind of sense that

595
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:14,960
things were right in the uk now to try

596
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:17,120
and kind of take it to the to

597
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:19,919
the next level uh so what we've done is

598
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:22,720
we've um we've expanded it we've gone

599
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,520
from uh 28 pages to 40 pages

600
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,320
and we've got lots of um new columnists

601
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:32,159
in we've got lots of we've put together

602
00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:34,799
an editorial advisory board that is uh

603
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:36,880
that's just to die for basically we've

604
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,280
got a couple of a couple of aussies on

605
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:41,840
there we've got tim minchin and uh

606
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:44,880
current stocks now uh we've got stephen

607
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:48,080
fry we've got uh robin ins we've got

608
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:50,880
richard dawkins we've i mean richard

609
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:52,960
wiseman simon singh the list goes on and

610
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:56,080
on elizabeth loftus this you know all

611
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:58,000
these people that i mean when we're

612
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:59,200
going to when we're going to touch with

613
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,559
them one of the things that was very

614
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:02,400
really very

615
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,000
nice and rewarding was their enthusiasm

616
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:08,480
i mean it wasn't just a matter of uh

617
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,600
for most of them it wasn't a matter of

618
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:11,440
just saying oh yes i'll have my name

619
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:14,880
attached to your magazine it was uh and

620
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:16,880
you know what can i do to help and and

621
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,559
that was just great so we've got this

622
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:20,320
kind of fantastic resource there now

623
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:22,880
that we can draw on um and people you

624
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:24,640
know getting people like that that we

625
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:26,000
can ask to write articles for the

626
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:27,120
magazine

627
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:28,559
um and it's just going from strength to

628
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:30,880
strength so it's it's all good so people

629
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:33,600
can subscribe to the new uk skeptic

630
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:35,679
magazine by heading to your official

631
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:38,159
site you've also worked on the haunt

632
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:40,400
project and on a richard dawkins

633
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:42,559
documentary what other research are you

634
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:44,480
currently working upon there's lots

635
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:47,440
going on at the moment um

636
00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:48,720
recently

637
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,559
we've actually been uh doing lots of

638
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:52,960
work looking at the relationship between

639
00:23:59,270 --> 00:23:56,080
um memory distortion and belief in the

640
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:59,280
paranormal uh i did some work with uh

641
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:01,039
chrissy wilson who

642
00:24:05,270 --> 00:24:02,240
since has

643
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,280
gone to us uh yes indeed dr chrissy

644
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:07,679
wilson uh becoming quite a part of the

645
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,520
sydney skeptic scene i've noticed she's

646
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:11,679
moved from the university of tasmania up

647
00:24:15,909 --> 00:24:13,520
to new south wales so hopefully we get

648
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:15,919
to hear more on our show yes yep well

649
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,600
again i mean chrissy did some

650
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,440
interesting work while she was at

651
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:21,760
goldsmiths in the anomalistic psychology

652
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:24,880
research unit um looking at the

653
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,600
relationship between susceptibility to

654
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:30,000
false memories and

655
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:32,080
belief in the paranormal and it turns

656
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:34,240
out that um

657
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:36,000
we suspected this would be the case on

658
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:38,799
previous literature but we

659
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:41,200
actually directly tested the idea that

660
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,159
people

661
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,120
who were more prone to false memories

662
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:47,760
would also be more likely to believe in

663
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:49,840
the paranormal and to report paranormal

664
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:51,919
experiences and we did experiments that

665
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,880
actually did support that hypothesis we

666
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:57,039
want to try and carry on and do further

667
00:25:03,430 --> 00:24:58,960
work in that area

668
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:03,440
um we're also i'm working on um a book

669
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:06,720
on anomalistic psychology um that's been

670
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:08,799
co-written with a colleague anna stone

671
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:11,039
at the university of east london

672
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,840
um we've just

673
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,120
recently uh finished editing a

674
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:17,760
collection of the best of the skeptic

675
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,480
this is a book called why statues weep

676
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:24,640
and that should be appearing within the

677
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:26,480
next couple of months we're actually now

678
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:27,760
at the kind of proof

679
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:30,400
proofreading stage on that one um so

680
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,919
there's just kind of there's just so

681
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,360
much going on it's just trying to you

682
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:35,279
know i could do with finding a way to

683
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:36,799
get say

684
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:39,760
48 72 hours in a day that would be good

685
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:40,840
that would

686
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,440
help brilliant oh one of the things that

687
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:45,360
probably this is just related to my own

688
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,720
research you've recently investigated uh

689
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,799
contributing factors to conspiracy

690
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,880
theory belief was one of the papers

691
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:54,880
i wrote to you about has there been any

692
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:56,640
development on that front

693
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,320
there's we've not done anything else

694
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,840
since what we do we did a a tv program

695
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:02,720
um

696
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,559
myself and a colleague at royal holloway

697
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:08,080
um

698
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:10,880
it was a program for channel four

699
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:13,440
on uh belief in conspiracy theories and

700
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:15,200
it was a nice way for us to actually be

701
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,080
able to collect some real data now since

702
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,919
then my colleague has said that he said

703
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,679
that he would write this up and turn it

704
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:23,440
into a proper paper and it's just not

705
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:26,000
happened yet because and again i know

706
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:28,000
how difficult it is to find the time

707
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,360
because i'm just as bad myself yeah um

708
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:33,200
but i can i get a lot of research done

709
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,880
by our project students and i've got a

710
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,960
very good project student at the moment

711
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:38,720
who's wanting to look at

712
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:40,960
some of the kind of cognitive factors

713
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:43,120
that might be involved in um

714
00:26:48,269 --> 00:26:45,679
belief in conspiracy theories it's it's

715
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,279
a really good area because it's it's

716
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,120
under-researched oh it is

717
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:53,200
there's not very much out there and what

718
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,600
little bit there is you can kind of um

719
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:57,039
you can get on top of that you can you

720
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,919
feel your

721
00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:59,600
you know what literature's there i mean

722
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,360
some of the other topics that you might

723
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:03,840
want to do research on you know you you

724
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:06,400
realize there are hundreds of papers

725
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,559
and it's a bit thing but something like

726
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:10,720
this i mean and obviously it's a very

727
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,799
very relevant issue at the moment i mean

728
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:14,240
there are so many different

729
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,919
aspects to belief in conspiracy theories

730
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,679
lots of which i've got kind of you know

731
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:21,520
serious real life implications when

732
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:23,919
people buy into these kind of mindsets

733
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,120
they

734
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:28,240
taking on some very very weird values in

735
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,559
the process i think it was uh three of

736
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:32,880
the items on the survey that dr martin

737
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:35,120
bridgstock and i did by the time i had

738
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:37,279
finished looking for my lit review at

739
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,440
the conspiracy theory papers i was

740
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,279
really pleased to notice that there was

741
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:43,600
a growth in new papers coming out but

742
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,480
yes very very recent yeah that's right

743
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,480
yeah i mean there's karen douglas at

744
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,120
kent university as well she's done some

745
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:53,200
interesting work and she's an australian

746
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,960
as well i've noticed

747
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,000
yes

748
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:58,320
so yeah you get everywhere don't you do

749
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:00,159
you really do

750
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:07,029
uh my current co-editor is uh is

751
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:08,799
canadian but my the one before that was

752
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,440
australian so uh so the skeptic is kind

753
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:13,840
of you know we we we like a bit of

754
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:16,159
aussie import here and there yeah the

755
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:17,760
networking is important for all of us i

756
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:19,120
think yeah

757
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:22,000
i think so quite definitely yeah i mean

758
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:23,520
that's one that's one of the good things

759
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:25,600
obviously again yeah to state the

760
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,039
bleeding obvious

761
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:29,200
uh i mean the internet has just kind of

762
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:31,039
completely revolutionized things it's

763
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,559
just so easy now

764
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,360
to want to do podcasts to do

765
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,960
research collaborative research with

766
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:38,080
people around the other side of the

767
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,520
planet um and it's just you know once

768
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:43,200
things that would have been so difficult

769
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:44,799
to organize they're just you know so

770
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:46,880
much easier these days so if people want

771
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:49,200
to find out more about the uk skeptics

772
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:51,120
and the various projects that are going

773
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:51,919
on

774
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:53,919
which website should they head to i

775
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,679
don't know the first uh that i mean the

776
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:57,520
main two for the skeptic magazine and

777
00:29:04,789 --> 00:28:59,279
for stuff related to the skeptic

778
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:07,830
skeptic with the k not surprisingly um

779
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:10,159
and for the anomalistic psychology

780
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:14,480
research unit that's www dot goldsmiths

781
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,080
dot ac dot uk forward slash apo and uh

782
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:22,640
there's a lot of our papers and what

783
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:25,440
have you are downloadable from that site

784
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:26,480
if people want to find out what's

785
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:29,200
happening marvelous thank you very much

786
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:37,990
alright guys i was talking to uh richard

787
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:39,919
saunders today all right uh he said if

788
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,240
we record a trailer for a podcast

789
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,320
skeptics with a k uh he'd play it on

790
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,840
there on their show that's nice of him

791
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:47,200
that's very generous it's pretty good

792
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,399
i'm not sure what we could do though i

793
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:50,320
mean well i suppose you tell people the

794
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:51,840
show's about but it's basically just

795
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,640
this yeah like yeah but you know we talk

796
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:56,320
about science and skepticism and things

797
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:57,520
that's that's true i suppose you know

798
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:58,720
you mentioned the website address not

799
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:01,360
mercy side skeptics.uk yeah yeah i'll

800
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,960
just like search for snitunes oh and

801
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,399
then we could end with like a big song

802
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:06,840
like the skeptics with

803
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:13,029
for seven years now it's been my

804
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:14,960
pleasure to be part of the mystery

805
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:18,000
investigators show for schools

806
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:20,880
originally with linda brown and now with

807
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:23,600
dr rachie dunlop we visit schools and

808
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:26,559
perform our mystery investigators show

809
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:28,640
where we explore the paranormal the

810
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,559
supernatural the strange

811
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:32,720
and the mysterious

812
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,720
it's such an important part of what i do

813
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:36,880
in skepticism dr rachie too i thought

814
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:39,039
you might like to hear a little bit

815
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,480
of the show

816
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:42,240
we performed at abbotsley school for

817
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:43,200
girls

818
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:46,000
just this week and here are a few

819
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:47,200
highlights

820
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:49,760
we start off with good old-fashioned

821
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,750
one more time

822
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:01,750
okay thank you tess now it's my turn to

823
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:02,880
stop still

824
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:05,039
it's all right

825
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:06,559
thank you very much

826
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:08,480
i hate to hold this other one too nice

827
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:09,600
and tight

828
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:11,120
what i'm going to do at the moment is

829
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:12,640
i'm going to do something i'm going to

830
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:15,679
try and use the power of my mind and all

831
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,480
your help of course to make this metal

832
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,919
and the spoon

833
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:22,080
melt in my hands

834
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,760
just by using a couple of fingers to

835
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,159
hold it like that

836
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:28,720
you're going to help me everybody

837
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:31,039
everybody concentrate on the spoon and i

838
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:34,399
want you all to think as loudly as you

839
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,320
can the word

840
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:38,960
bend can you do that for me i practice

841
00:31:44,430 --> 00:31:41,840
ready one two three

842
00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:44,440
think as

843
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,159
loud you're getting there one two three

844
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:50,320
oh very good all right

845
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,679
here we go so make sure to hold your

846
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,480
spoon up everyone think ben

847
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,399
and i'm going to try and give you a bit

848
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:58,240
of an optical illusion let's see if we

849
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:00,559
can make it look like that

850
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:05,190
wiggles

851
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,640
see how that looks like it's getting

852
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:08,159
wiggly

853
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:26,950
of course it's not it's just a trick

854
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,039
it's an optical illusion because

855
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:31,039
metal doesn't oh

856
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:47,830
last time i did that everybody applauded

857
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:49,669
for being a great volunteer you could

858
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:03,669
so we are the mystery investigators

859
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:06,000
quick introduction for you all

860
00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:08,159
we have in the show today

861
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,389
dr he is a real scientist working in

862
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:18,960
heart medicine with the heart institute

863
00:33:23,909 --> 00:33:22,080
research there she is doing real science

864
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,919
and the work that she does helps

865
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:25,679
discover all about heart disease and

866
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:27,840
makes our lives a whole lot better she

867
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,760
works very hard at that

868
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,200
now

869
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:32,880
who remembers a couple of years ago

870
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:34,480
there was a funny show on tv about

871
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:36,880
looking for australia's best psychic did

872
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:39,039
anybody yeah you remember that

873
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:40,480
it was called

874
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:41,519
the one

875
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:42,799
now do you remember there was that

876
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:44,559
goofball on it that silly guy who was

877
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:45,919
the skeptic

878
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:47,039
the judge

879
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:48,240
you remember him

880
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:54,230
yeah somebody recognized me out there

881
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:55,679
that's nice

882
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:57,679
there i am doing the show what we're

883
00:34:02,549 --> 00:33:59,600
going to do in the show today is talk

884
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,559
about this sort of things the strange

885
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,080
and the mysterious

886
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:06,000
now i must also say that joining us

887
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:08,560
today in the show as our assistant all

888
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:16,069
you're going to be nice to dr chrissy

889
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:17,280
she's going to be handing out some

890
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:46,950
isn't she nice

891
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,349
meeting oh yes

892
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:53,589
one of the main points we try to make in

893
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,480
the show is to do with testimonials and

894
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:57,680
anecdotes

895
00:35:03,190 --> 00:34:59,839
we have a whole routine where i come out

896
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:03,200
with some juggling balls and well

897
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:15,910
now richard sometimes you might hear

898
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:18,240
people

899
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,000
tell you that they've read

900
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:22,320
something written about a product that

901
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:24,160
says it was good and it worked for me

902
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:25,599
and

903
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:30,240
we should always ask questions about

904
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,000
that if someone has a claim about

905
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:34,000
something you should always ask for

906
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:35,040
evidence

907
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:38,720
now my friend here dr richard

908
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:41,599
he says doctor are you promoting me no

909
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:45,119
sorry just richard

910
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,920
now

911
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,839
he gave me this the other day he emailed

912
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,599
this to me and he said that

913
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:51,359
as you can see up here it says that he

914
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:54,560
can juggle three tennis balls now

915
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,920
this is from the melbourne street

916
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:57,599
performers academy richard they sound

917
00:36:02,470 --> 00:35:58,880
like a pretty

918
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:04,390
yeah it says i mean it's signed by fred

919
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,280
merk he's the principal of the melbourne

920
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,440
street performance

921
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:11,280
well now you write it as a sign it's

922
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,119
just written there it's not signed but

923
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:15,520
it does say you can juggle three tennis

924
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:17,119
balls

925
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:18,720
yes i think that's enough for me to

926
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:21,599
realize that you can ah well it would be

927
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,200
but press that button and you'll

928
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:25,599
discover

929
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:27,760
look at that oh i see there's another

930
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,240
one now this is from your scout leader

931
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,800
isn't it saying that a good scout leader

932
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,240
a very good scout leader saying that you

933
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:36,640
can also juggle three tennis balls so

934
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:38,320
i'm pretty convinced that you can juggle

935
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,680
three tennis balls i don't think we need

936
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,119
to do that

937
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:43,520
press it one more time

938
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:46,000
there's another one there's another one

939
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:48,000
well this is from the justice of the

940
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,079
peace now

941
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:52,240
they're really important people and they

942
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,800
they say that you can juggle your three

943
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:57,359
tennis balls as well so

944
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:58,320
yep

945
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:00,320
i think that's enough uh evidence guys

946
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,760
what do you think we don't need to see

947
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:04,320
anymore in fact

948
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:31,510
you believe me don't you

949
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:33,510
all right

950
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:57,910
i think you better you better

951
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:01,030
so there you go it is true so that means

952
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:11,589
now this one is about you being able to

953
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:15,440
juggle five tennis balls five times

954
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,030
it's the same person who said he could

955
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:23,040
juggle three and he can so it must be

956
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:28,630
oh and here's another one from the same

957
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,320
scout leader who says he can juggle fly

958
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:34,480
now i'm hearing someone say that they're

959
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:35,440
old

960
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,880
too it doesn't matter yeah maybe they're

961
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:40,640
out of date

962
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:42,240
i don't know i think they're pretty good

963
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:44,480
i i believe i mean he said in jungle

964
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,349
because look it said i could juggle

965
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:54,079
three the testimonials is absolutely

966
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:56,160
right you all saw i could juggle three

967
00:39:04,790 --> 00:38:57,760
there's no point in showing you five

968
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:06,630
you want me to do it

969
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:07,760
really

970
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,560
yeah i think well

971
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:12,800
they want you to show that you can do it

972
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:28,470
thank you

973
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:34,470
you said you could juggle five tennis

974
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:35,359
balls

975
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,599
and we had bits of paper that said you

976
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:39,280
could juggle fly tennis balls but it

977
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,960
turns out that you can't do that but i

978
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,640
could juggle three

979
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,320
yes but

980
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:46,160
i think that's evidence that we need to

981
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:49,920
ask for proof don't we yes absolutely

982
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,000
it really doesn't matter what's written

983
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:54,560
on a piece of paper if you have any

984
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,240
serious doubts it's your right to ask

985
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:00,960
for more proof like you did with me

986
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:03,359
if you see something it looks amazing

987
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,720
and someone says it's true look it's

988
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:06,640
written on this piece of paper or it's

989
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,160
written on the internet

990
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:12,000
we say take it with a pinch of salt

991
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:13,040
always

992
00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:15,599
be ready to ask for more evidence if you

993
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:17,920
really want to very important i think

994
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:19,599
very important

995
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:25,190
throughout the show we hand out

996
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:27,680
astrology reports for the kids at the

997
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:29,119
end of the show we sort of collect the

998
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:30,079
scores

999
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:32,240
helping us with this section was dr

1000
00:40:41,440 --> 00:41:18,630
what was yours

1001
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,190
what about the virgo who had bobo

1002
00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,790
well that's good

1003
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:26,240
libra

1004
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:30,000
yours

1005
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:31,440
age

1006
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:49,750
dr chrissy and our pisces where's our

1007
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:51,760
slices

1008
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:54,240
nine and a half

1009
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,119
wow

1010
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,119
so only a very few of you thought that

1011
00:42:10,550 --> 00:41:59,280
they weren't very good so now i'm just

1012
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:12,309
i tell you what i think you might be

1013
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:14,160
honest dr chrissy could you just read

1014
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,240
out the first part of your one and those

1015
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:19,040
who have the paper have a look okay this

1016
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:21,440
is this is my special reading that the

1017
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:24,240
psychic gave me okay

1018
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:27,839
while at times you have serious doubts

1019
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:29,359
as to whether you have made the right

1020
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:32,000
decision or done the right thing you are

1021
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,839
disciplined and controlled on the

1022
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,359
outside anyway i'm getting giggles

1023
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,200
what's going on

1024
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:39,359
this is saying

1025
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:40,640
let me do some more

1026
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:42,960
you tend to be worrisome

1027
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,240
and insecure on the inside your basic

1028
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:49,200
intuitions usually right and you are an

1029
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:51,760
excellent judge of character your sense

1030
00:43:05,190 --> 00:42:59,589
are you saying that they're all the same

1031
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:06,710
who reads their astrology in the

1032
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:08,640
newspaper

1033
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,920
and then

1034
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:11,760
every time we ask there's less people

1035
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:14,240
now yeah but this lady down the front

1036
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,400
was spot on because she said that if you

1037
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,720
mix up the cosmopolitan and the dolly

1038
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:20,240
star science they're all the same is

1039
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:22,400
that what you said they're all like yeah

1040
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:24,079
like if you read every single one of

1041
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,839
them they're all basically the same just

1042
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:28,000
change the word so they could apply to

1043
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:35,750
in all the years

1044
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:37,760
that scientists have been seriously

1045
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,480
studying the claims of astrologers

1046
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:42,240
we've discovered that there's really

1047
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:44,000
nothing in it

1048
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:46,160
it's good fun it's great to be just

1049
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:48,079
outside and have a giggle

1050
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:50,000
but as far as we know the planets and

1051
00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:51,760
the stars

1052
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,079
can't really influence your lives the

1053
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:56,160
way that astrologers say

1054
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,480
they can

1055
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,160
every teenager's life i think you're

1056
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:02,400
right however

1057
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,000
there is a real science called astronomy

1058
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:08,240
and astronomy did i get an applause for

1059
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:16,870
if you want

1060
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:18,640
real magic

1061
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,960
and real wonder and real beauty then

1062
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:23,520
astronomy is for you because unlike

1063
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:26,720
astrology astronomy can really take us

1064
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:29,520
to the planets and stars some of you may

1065
00:45:01,990 --> 00:44:59,750
and most of you know that really is a

1066
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:02,000
lovely panorama from the surface of

1067
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:03,760
planet mars

1068
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:06,480
we using science have visited other

1069
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,160
planets and we're going to be visiting

1070
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:10,400
other stars in our universe

1071
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:12,880
ladies that's where science can take us

1072
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:14,640
that's why we love science so much and

1073
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:17,119
it's been our pleasure to

1074
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:17,440
i'd perform for

1075
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:25,270
and all the way from london our

1076
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:44,150
and again you've been a wonderful

1077
00:46:02,790 --> 00:45:58,069
so that's the mystery investigators show

1078
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:04,870
you can also find us performing at the

1079
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:07,440
australian museum in science week and at

1080
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:21,190
this is eugenie scott national center

1081
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:24,240
for science education you can find us at

1082
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,990
come see us if you want to know anything

1083
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,240
about the creationism and evolution

1084
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,800
conflict in the united states or

1085
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:36,720
moors the pity internationally these

1086
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:38,640
days we are clearing house for

1087
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,839
information on this vexing but certainly

1088
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:43,760
very interesting problem

1089
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,270
the boom effect is an auction in action

1090
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:55,599
for sonic boom's future started by a

1091
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:58,000
group of podcasters and writers as a way

1092
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:59,839
for these communities to show support

1093
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:01,520
for the morris family

1094
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:03,680
t morris is a beloved founding father of

1095
00:47:06,750 --> 00:47:05,440
the podcasting community

1096
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:06,760
he is the co-creator of

1097
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:09,200
potaudiobooks.com writer of four social

1098
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:11,359
media books and the first novelist to

1099
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,119
serialize his novel

1100
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,359
on the 5th of january 2010 he found

1101
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:17,520
himself facing raising his daughter with

1102
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,560
the alias of sonic boom alone after the

1103
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:22,400
sudden shocking death of his wife

1104
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:23,839
natalie

1105
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:25,520
if you head to the official site at

1106
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:28,000
theboomfect.org you'll find a variety of

1107
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:30,720
auction items amongst them is a box of

1108
00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:32,640
skeptical goodness donated by the

1109
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,560
skeptic zone and the token skeptic

1110
00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:36,000
podcasts

1111
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:37,839
in there you'll find signed photos by

1112
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,240
skeptic zone podcasters richard saunders

1113
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,720
and dr rachel dunlop and other items

1114
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:44,800
including region free dvds of team

1115
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:45,760
mention

1116
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,400
the interrobang album by george robb tim

1117
00:48:08,710 --> 00:47:51,119
tams mustix and the latest book by dr

1118
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:11,910
at 10 23 a.m on january the 30th on uk

1119
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,800
time more than 300 homeopathy skeptics

1120
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,640
nationwide took part in a mass

1121
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:18,800
homeopathic overdose in protests at

1122
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,960
boots continued endorsement and sale of

1123
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,200
homeopathic remedies and in order to

1124
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,119
raise public awareness about the fact

1125
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:27,280
that homeopathic remedies have nothing

1126
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:28,240
in them

1127
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,079
consumer rights activists took part in

1128
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:32,319
the protests on that day culminating in

1129
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:34,400
a mass homeopathic overdose

1130
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:36,559
taking place in city centres across the

1131
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:37,680
world

1132
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,280
here's some of the reactions that we got

1133
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,119
when we were taking part as skeptic zone

1134
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,680
members both richard saunders and myself

1135
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,839
in sydney new south wales and in perth

1136
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:47,200
western australia

1137
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,599
well here we are it's the 1023 campaign

1138
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:51,119
in sydney australia

1139
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:53,119
we're outside a real pharmacy we just

1140
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:55,200
bought packets and packets of

1141
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:57,760
homeopathic sleeping tablets sleeping

1142
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,800
tablets

1143
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:00,880
my friend

1144
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:07,750
skeptics in the pub are committing

1145
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,800
suicide we'd like to thank the 10 23

1146
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:13,280
events for making this process

1147
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,720
this actually tastes good like good yeah

1148
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,720
yeah i'd buy them just for the for the

1149
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,319
resolution

1150
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:22,079
yeah that means one

1151
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:23,760
molecule of arsenic

1152
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:25,760
for 80 million

1153
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:29,359
earth volumes of filler oh my god so far

1154
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,920
i'm not feeling any death coming on i

1155
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:33,440
can tell you one thing about death it is

1156
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:38,150
it looks like we've managed to ingest

1157
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:44,710
i agree the sugar rush is nice

1158
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:46,160
great sugar rush

1159
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,319
how are you feeling awesome tasty

1160
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:50,559
they're good i'm eating them very slowly

1161
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,440
very slowly yeah i i spent 15 in a whole

1162
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:54,880
packet of these you better be enjoying

1163
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:56,079
them

1164
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,559
still wide awake unfortunately but we'll

1165
00:50:02,230 --> 00:50:00,480
see okay

1166
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:02,240
still awake no effects whatsoever

1167
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:05,440
delicious yummy

1168
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:06,319
love that

1169
00:50:10,630 --> 00:50:09,520
yeah you could use some wedges

1170
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:10,640
ladies and gentlemen do you think i

1171
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:12,160
should have just brought you jelly beans

1172
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:35,750
um

1173
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:37,750
the 1023 event was only just the

1174
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:39,920
beginning of an awareness campaign about

1175
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,720
homeopathy and how there's nothing in it

1176
00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:44,640
you can find out more and discover about

1177
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:46,760
ongoing efforts at

1178
00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:55,990
now it's time for dr rachie reports with

1179
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:02,870
hello listeners and welcome to this very

1180
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:06,160
special edition of dr reche reports

1181
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:08,400
this week i give you a roundup of news

1182
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:10,400
from a huge week in science and

1183
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:12,960
skepticism with some very big events

1184
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:15,280
restoring my faith in the world well for

1185
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,960
a short time anyway

1186
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:18,720
one such event was announced to me by

1187
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:20,880
the bad astronomer phil plate when he

1188
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:22,480
passed on the good news about an

1189
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:24,880
e-newsletter sent by the australian

1190
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:26,640
vaccination network

1191
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,520
the headlines screamed avn to close its

1192
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:31,680
doors at the end of the month

1193
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:34,640
and the contents explained that after 17

1194
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:37,760
years the president merrill dory was

1195
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:40,079
tendering my resignation as president of

1196
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:42,720
this great organization and moving on to

1197
00:51:47,109 --> 00:51:44,480
the next stage of my own personal

1198
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:47,119
development as mother wife activist and

1199
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:49,760
researcher the reasons she cited were

1200
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:52,319
primarily monetary she described the

1201
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:54,079
stress of not knowing when money to

1202
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,559
cover wages and bills would come in

1203
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,160
and that she was stepping down to spend

1204
00:52:01,750 --> 00:52:00,319
more time with her family

1205
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:01,760
she said

1206
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:03,599
i am getting older my children have

1207
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:05,599
missed out on so much so i could run the

1208
00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:08,640
avn and at this stage in my existence i

1209
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:10,480
need to be able to work on this subject

1210
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:12,720
and still have a life then came the

1211
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:14,240
irony

1212
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,359
quote

1213
00:52:20,790 --> 00:52:17,440
without a large injection of capital

1214
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:20,800
behind me i simply cannot continue

1215
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,880
she used the word injection

1216
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:25,280
ms dory you do amuse

1217
00:52:30,549 --> 00:52:27,920
so the upshot whoops was that she is

1218
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:30,559
broke and the future of the avn was grim

1219
00:52:35,190 --> 00:52:32,559
unless quote

1220
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,200
a benefactor or series of benefactors

1221
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:37,119
come forward to establish a fund that

1222
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:39,440
would guarantee the avn's existence for

1223
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:42,079
at least the next two to three years

1224
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:44,079
this is not the first time ms dory has

1225
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,640
asked for money from her members a few

1226
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:48,640
months ago she was asking people to put

1227
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:50,480
aside a percentage of their government

1228
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:52,640
paid family allowance to donate to the

1229
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:53,760
avn

1230
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:56,240
the day following this e-newsletter ms

1231
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:58,079
dory sent another e-newsletter

1232
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:00,960
clarifying that the avn would only close

1233
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:02,640
if she did not receive the required

1234
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:04,960
funds and she was sorry if she had

1235
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:07,200
worried her followers

1236
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:09,200
this clarification became somewhat

1237
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:11,680
clouded today however when she sent yet

1238
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:14,160
another e-newsletter with the masthead

1239
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:15,839
exclaiming

1240
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:19,119
living wisdom avn closing down sale

1241
00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:20,960
this e-newsletter detailed that all

1242
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:23,119
their educational material would be on

1243
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:25,200
sale for the next three weeks

1244
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,040
after which time they would be closing

1245
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,000
down so is she or isn't she

1246
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:32,079
one has to wonder however why she is

1247
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,920
asking her supporters for an injection

1248
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:35,119
of cash

1249
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:36,800
why haven't the big guys come to the

1250
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:39,280
table the likes of generation rescue and

1251
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,720
age of autism

1252
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:42,960
perhaps they see a flailing company as

1253
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:45,359
not a very good investment

1254
00:53:49,109 --> 00:53:47,119
on top of this her reputation has

1255
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:49,119
received a battering over the last 12

1256
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,079
months

1257
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:51,920
at last count there were two pending

1258
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:53,680
complaints lodged with the new south

1259
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:56,240
wales healthcare complaints commission

1260
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:58,160
there were also two with the office of

1261
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,240
liquor gaming and racing the charity

1262
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:02,720
watchdog one accusing her of operating

1263
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:06,480
without a charity license for two years

1264
00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:08,240
she was also awarded the australian

1265
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:10,640
skeptics bent spoon award for being a

1266
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:12,640
threat to public health

1267
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:14,319
and she has been forced to change

1268
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:16,240
seminar venues when organizers

1269
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,160
discovered the true nature of her

1270
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:20,160
information

1271
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:21,839
and not to mention she has taken a

1272
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:23,520
battering in the press for spreading

1273
00:54:27,430 --> 00:54:25,520
false statistics and scare-mongering

1274
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:27,440
about the safety and efficacy of

1275
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:29,359
vaccines

1276
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:30,960
i think this might be the beginning of

1277
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:33,359
the end for the embattled avn

1278
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:36,480
and i for one won't miss him not at all

1279
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:38,319
also this week the general medical

1280
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,319
council in the united kingdom handed

1281
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:42,400
down their findings about the conduct of

1282
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:46,800
controversial mmr dr andrew wakefield

1283
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:49,680
on january 28 after the lengthiest case

1284
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:52,319
in history the leading anti-vaccination

1285
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:54,880
proponent dr andrew wakefield was found

1286
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,559
to be dishonest irresponsible and guilty

1287
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:00,400
of putting children through painful and

1288
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:03,040
unnecessary tests this included

1289
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:05,200
subjecting children to lumbar punctures

1290
00:55:10,790 --> 00:55:08,480
or spinal taps and colonoscopies

1291
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:10,800
wakefield also collected blood samples

1292
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,040
for his control studies at his son's

1293
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:16,000
birthday party and later laughed about

1294
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:18,559
how children had vomited and fainted

1295
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:20,400
after he took their blood and then paid

1296
00:55:23,790 --> 00:55:22,000
them five pounds

1297
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:23,800
the history of this story goes back to

1298
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:26,720
1998 when the lancet published a paper

1299
00:55:31,190 --> 00:55:29,119
by wakefield and others outlining

1300
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:31,200
research which supposedly found a link

1301
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:33,599
between mmr or measles mumps rubella

1302
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:34,559
vaccine

1303
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:37,440
and autism the upshot of the release of

1304
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:39,680
wakefield's findings was a great deal of

1305
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:41,839
media coverage outlining the supposed

1306
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:44,160
dangers of mmr leading to autism in

1307
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:46,720
children these findings were immediately

1308
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:48,960
picked up by anti-vaccination groups as

1309
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,520
evidence of the dangers of vaccination

1310
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,240
what has been described as panic ensued

1311
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,079
with vaccination rates immediately

1312
00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:58,720
dropping in the uk to as low as 50

1313
00:56:03,109 --> 00:56:01,440
percent in some parts of london and of

1314
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:03,119
course this led to an increase in

1315
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:05,200
diseases that mmr was designed to

1316
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,319
prevent

1317
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:08,160
even today vaccination rates have

1318
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,079
apparently still not fully recovered to

1319
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:12,559
the levels before the scare

1320
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:14,240
yet this research has not been

1321
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:16,880
duplicated by others and most of the

1322
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:19,119
co-authors of the paper subsequently

1323
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,839
dissociated themselves from it in 2004

1324
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:25,359
yet this seemed to be of no

1325
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:28,240
consideration to the anti-vaxx movement

1326
00:56:32,870 --> 00:56:30,240
their case as far as they were concerned

1327
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:32,880
was proved end of story

1328
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:34,720
one of the poster boys of the global

1329
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,040
anti-vaccination movement the findings

1330
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:38,960
against wakefield mean there is a strong

1331
00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:41,119
possibility of him being struck off the

1332
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:43,760
medical register but with the gmc's

1333
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,680
findings against wakefield's dishonest

1334
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:47,760
and irresponsible practices the

1335
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,760
anti-vaccination movement took a heavy

1336
00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:52,079
blow as his research has been the

1337
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:54,079
foundation of much of its specious

1338
00:56:57,910 --> 00:56:55,760
argument

1339
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:57,920
the next blow to wakefield's reputation

1340
00:57:02,150 --> 00:57:00,079
came from the lancet itself

1341
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:02,160
on january the 2nd the prestigious

1342
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,400
medical journal issued a full retraction

1343
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,200
of the paper stating that

1344
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,359
it has become clear that several

1345
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,000
elements of the 1998 paper by wakefield

1346
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:14,480
ettel are incorrect

1347
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:16,559
therefore we fully retract this paper

1348
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:18,960
from the published record true to form

1349
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:20,799
the anti-vaccination movement came out

1350
00:57:24,950 --> 00:57:23,119
in defense of wakefield describing him

1351
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:24,960
as a martyr to the cause

1352
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:26,880
and wakefield has been quoted as saying

1353
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,160
he has no regrets over his work

1354
00:57:35,829 --> 00:57:32,480
one correspondent on a forum described

1355
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:35,839
the gmc panel as quote evil judges from

1356
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:38,400
the garden of stalin but it is without

1357
00:57:42,470 --> 00:57:40,160
doubt that the movement has suffered a

1358
00:57:44,789 --> 00:57:42,480
serious blow as wakefield's research

1359
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:44,799
underpinned much of its often hysterical

1360
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,839
argument

1361
00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:47,680
as is also true to form for the

1362
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,839
anti-vaccination movement they are now

1363
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:51,839
crying fail and saying this is a big

1364
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:54,000
pharma big government conspiracy to

1365
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:56,319
cover up the truth one day maybe they'll

1366
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:59,119
think of some original arguments

1367
00:58:03,270 --> 00:58:01,040
and that's it for the wrap up of a huge

1368
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,280
week in science and skepticism but

1369
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:04,960
before i leave you for this week i'm

1370
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:07,040
reminded of the consequences of the

1371
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,839
anti-vaccination movement worldwide if

1372
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,520
it wasn't for scare mongering about the

1373
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:13,680
safety and efficacy of vaccines by the

1374
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:15,280
likes of andrew wakefield and the

1375
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,000
australian vaccination network today on

1376
00:58:22,309 --> 00:58:20,319
february the 5th 2010 we would be

1377
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:22,319
celebrating the first birthday of dana

1378
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,640
mccaffrey who tragically passed away

1379
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:26,799
from pertussis or whooping cough on

1380
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:29,520
march 9 2009

1381
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:31,040
our thoughts are with the mccaffrey

1382
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,079
family

1383
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:34,319
and until next time this has been dr

1384
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:57,430
well thank you for listening to the

1385
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:00,799
skeptic zone show number 68 on the 5th

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of february

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another great show coming up next week

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our special guest will be

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mentalist and master magician philippa

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scoffy who's currently touring australia

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from the uk

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and of course we'll have the think tank

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so

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until next week this is richard saunders

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you've been listening to the skeptic